Dave, Do you have any specifics on what he says? I believe that he states that there is no physical hell, that the wicked are annihilated. However, wihtout reading his argument, it is hard to commment. Traditional orthodoxy is that God's judgment that lasts eternally in hell. It would be interesting to see how Bell arrives at his conclusion. Anyone know?
There's a FAQ on the Mars Hill site that might be worth reading. It is located here: http://marshill.org/pdf/LoveWinsFAQs.pdf. Also, there is another site that has posted some resources on the controversy. That link is here: http://www.benterry.com/rob-bell-love-wins-controversy-interview-review-concerns. It might be worth looking at each of these and hearing what the class has to say.
I have to say first and foremost that I have not read this book. I did read the material from Mars Hill and his interview and as well as the commentary on the book. So my comments can only relate to this information and their observations.
These are the things that stood out for me:
- Rob asks about the people that never get to hear the gospel of Jesus - He seems to indicate that there is time after death where people have the opportunity to place their faith in Jesus. Sounds like the concept of purgatory. - His focus appears to be on God's love and his hope for us to be redeemed and he draws some conclusions in which folks are taking issue. - The commentary panel discussion also pointed to the question of whether he is a universalist - will everyone ultimately wind up in heaven. Rob Bell said he is not a universalist. He said no one is outside of the power of God.
This seems to raise what could be some questions people might have: - If god is love why would he not give us an opportunity to trust Christ after we die? - How will people that came before Christ be in heaven? Are they given a chance after Christ to make a decision? Are they judged by God upon death to ascertain their worthiness to enter heaven even if they have not heard of Jesus? - Are we only judged on our actions and beliefs while we physically alive? - Do we all worship the same God?
In its purest form univeralism would preclude the need to believe in the life and gospel of Christ which is clearly not biblical. The panels discussion leans away from universalism, but says he may be more closely describing inclusivism. Inclusivism being where Christ paid the price for sin, but you don't have to know that it was Christ who paid that price so long as you recognize that you are not able to cover it yourself.
Again, only reading and watching the commentary, but it seems that Rob does not appear to support the assertions with biblical foundations or references. At first I thought he might still be searching for what is the truth. I later was thinking that this does not seem to be portrayed as a question, but as a fact of God. I don't think that discounts that people might have questions that should be considered, but it seems that he is a pastor and accountable for ensuring that what he teaches is biblically sound. It does not appear that he has provided a lot or much biblical support for this in his book.
Thanks for taking the time to post. I also have not read the book and I suppose it really isn't fair of me to make an assessment on the book or Rob without doing so. However, I did look at the FAQ and an there is something I can take away from all of this. I am not a follower of Rob Bell. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. There is no other name by which we can be saved and I think this is quite clear in the Scriptures. We all need to be prepared to give an accounting of our faith. We also need to be mature believers getting into and understanding the 'meat' of the Word. Our understanding is limited and we need Christ to open our minds to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45). Some mysteries have been known and others remain. God be praised in it all.
Thought you guys might want to check out this blog post on Rob Bell's new book by one of our own Wintonbury youth, Caleb Hayashida who actually read the book.
http://www.hostilelegacy.com/rob-bell-love-wins/
As always he has a very interesting take on things.
Dave,
ReplyDeleteDo you have any specifics on what he says? I believe that he states that there is no physical hell, that the wicked are annihilated. However, wihtout reading his argument, it is hard to commment. Traditional orthodoxy is that God's judgment that lasts eternally in hell. It would be interesting to see how Bell arrives at his conclusion. Anyone know?
There's a FAQ on the Mars Hill site that might be worth reading. It is located here: http://marshill.org/pdf/LoveWinsFAQs.pdf. Also, there is another site that has posted some resources on the controversy. That link is here: http://www.benterry.com/rob-bell-love-wins-controversy-interview-review-concerns. It might be worth looking at each of these and hearing what the class has to say.
ReplyDeleteI have to say first and foremost that I have not read this book. I did read the material from Mars Hill and his interview and as well as the commentary on the book. So my comments can only relate to this information and their observations.
ReplyDeleteThese are the things that stood out for me:
- Rob asks about the people that never get to hear the gospel of Jesus
- He seems to indicate that there is time after death where people have the opportunity to place their faith in Jesus. Sounds like the concept of purgatory.
- His focus appears to be on God's love and his hope for us to be redeemed and he draws some conclusions in which folks are taking issue.
- The commentary panel discussion also pointed to the question of whether he is a universalist - will everyone ultimately wind up in heaven. Rob Bell said he is not a universalist. He said no one is outside of the power of God.
This seems to raise what could be some questions people might have:
- If god is love why would he not give us an opportunity to trust Christ after we die?
- How will people that came before Christ be in heaven? Are they given a chance after Christ to make a decision? Are they judged by God upon death to ascertain their worthiness to enter heaven even if they have not heard of Jesus?
- Are we only judged on our actions and beliefs while we physically alive?
- Do we all worship the same God?
In its purest form univeralism would preclude the need to believe in the life and gospel of Christ which is clearly not biblical. The panels discussion leans away from universalism, but says he may be more closely describing inclusivism. Inclusivism being where Christ paid the price for sin, but you don't have to know that it was Christ who paid that price so long as you recognize that you are not able to cover it yourself.
Again, only reading and watching the commentary, but it seems that Rob does not appear to support the assertions with biblical foundations or references. At first I thought he might still be searching for what is the truth. I later was thinking that this does not seem to be portrayed as a question, but as a fact of God. I don't think that discounts that people might have questions that should be considered, but it seems that he is a pastor and accountable for ensuring that what he teaches is biblically sound. It does not appear that he has provided a lot or much biblical support for this in his book.
Thanks for posting Dave.
Thanks for taking the time to post. I also have not read the book and I suppose it really isn't fair of me to make an assessment on the book or Rob without doing so. However, I did look at the FAQ and an there is something I can take away from all of this. I am not a follower of Rob Bell. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. There is no other name by which we can be saved and I think this is quite clear in the Scriptures. We all need to be prepared to give an accounting of our faith. We also need to be mature believers getting into and understanding the 'meat' of the Word. Our understanding is limited and we need Christ to open our minds to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45). Some mysteries have been known and others remain. God be praised in it all.
ReplyDeleteThought you guys might want to check out this blog post on Rob Bell's new book by one of our own Wintonbury youth, Caleb Hayashida who actually read the book.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hostilelegacy.com/rob-bell-love-wins/
As always he has a very interesting take on things.